The "Moderate" Islamists in Britain
A recent hidden camera taping of what is really taught in one of Britain’s most influential “moderate” mosques tells you all you need to know about what these groups really believe.
Channel 4 took the courageous approach of infiltrating the Greenlane Mosque in Birmingham, a favorite of the “moderate” Muslim Council of Britain (and friends of CAIR, ISNA and others here) to hear what was being preached over a period of months. It was a true public service, one that U.S. journalism has not performed since Steve Emerson et al did the same thing in the U.S. a decade ago, with very similar results.
The contents of the tape are why many of us believe we are engaged in a war-not a war against Islam, but yes, a war against Islamists who are intent on destroying us and our way of life.
This language of hate and conquest is not a secret, it is openly preached. This is not an isolated, renegade mosque on the fringe of the British Islamic community, but the heart of it. It is a mosque praised publicly for its moderation, and the target of outreach programs by the government. Does any of this sound vaguely familiar in our government outreach program?
We hear the call to jihad against Christians and Jews (and, one would assume, atheists, Hindus and everyone else), a call to throw gays off of mountain tops, justification for hitting women, a death sentence against anyone who converts from Islam to another religion, and the right of an Imam to crucify and leave hanging for three days, anyone deemed an infidel. Much of this, of course, is paid for with Saudi money.
It was not an isolated sermon, but a series of sermons over a period of months. They were not whispers among the faithful, but full throated sermons aimed at audiences where children and teenagers were well represented. This is the target audience. The message is that the Salafist-jihadi movement is going to win, so join it. There is nothing subtle here. Just watch the show.
We hear the classic Muslim Brotherhood line that “you have to live like a stae within a state until we take over.” We hear the overt calls for jihad and calls to preparation for joining the moment when the “tables are turned” and Islam is dominant.
It would be impossible to make this up. Which is why the MCB is ranting about sentences being taken out of context and attempts to distort Islam and foment divisions.
It is a tremendously weak defense, relying on the tried and true tactics of smearing those who reveal what these organizations really are, with the same accusations of intolerance, racism and Muslim bashing that have worked so well for so long to silence any other voices.
But it does beg the question: Where are the Muslims who are outraged by this? Where are those who will say, no, this is not Islam, this is sedition, bigotry, hate speech and treason? The silence is deafening.
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Thanks for a nice article. In fact several mosques are involved as well as a Muslim school and some Islamic “charities”. If we had other reporters we would probably find many, many more.
The one thing I do not understand is why you think that this war is not against Islam. Surely the bloody and immoral example of the Prophet Muhammad is a catalyst which helps radicalize moderates into extremists.
What about the aggressive stance of the Qur’an towards non-believers? Surely the Prophet and the Qur’an provide perfect excuses for any Muslim with a grudge to engage in aggressive jihad against non-believers.
I do not believe poverty, cultural isolation and similar factors are enough to fuel terrorism. If this were true we would have Buddhist, Christian, Jewish and Sikh terrorist organizations not just Islamic terrorism.
There are moderate Muslims but I think they are moderate because they choose to ignore, or work around, the immorality of the Qur’an and the Prophet Muhammad.
-Stefcho.
— Stefcho Jan 17, 18:58 #
Douglas:
Principle speakers in the videos were Abu Usamah and Dr. Ijaz Mian (1). Lord Nazir or Nasir Ahmed – the first Muslim peer of the Labour Party – also responded to the videos (1). I think his response would be the influential and it would be worth seeing if he anything else to say.
My concern is the cultivation of Islamophobia in America and the resultant violence in response to a putative series of small attacks in which Islamic militants are blamed.
(1)
11 January 2007
BRITAIN’S NEW PREACHERS OF HATE
By Bobby Pathak
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/tm_headline=britain%2Ds-new-preachers-of-hate%26method=full%26objectid=18442715%26siteid=94762-name_page.html
”...FOR his part, Abu Usamah later said: “Islam allows for any Muslim to peacefully co-exist here in the UK with non-Muslims, even though the UK is not an Islamic society.”
He said he had made it clear that it is a religious duty of all Muslims to obey UK law and the carrying out of Islamic law could only be done in an actual Islamic state.
He added: “Homosexuality is an abomination against Allah and all mankind, and I will never condone it. Even though this is the case, I do not believe in disobeying the law when it comes to the way people deal with homosexuals.”
Lord [Nazir] Ahmed told us that Green Lane mosque was one of many mosques he visited. “It would be ludicrous to suggest that by visiting an institution I become responsible for, or aware of, every word spoken at that establishment.”
The Markazi Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith told us that it was “committed to promoting inter-faith dialogue and political harmony in our society”.
It said that scholars from many different backgrounds spoke at its mosque and that we had quoted many out of context.
It had not known what each speaker would say beforehand and did not necessarily agree with everything that may have been said.
It said the word kuffaar was a neutral term, and added: “We reject the assertion… that we are influenced by and teach an extreme version of Islam.
“We have no desire or intention to seize power or discriminate against others. We accept the rule of law and we treat our non-Muslim neighbours with respect.”
Finally, Dr Ijaz Mian said that he did not advocate that Islam would be forced upon anyone and said we had not quoted his many speeches condemning terrorism and the killing of innocent people…”
— Philip Henika Jan 17, 19:39 #
I believe that moderate Muslims are afraid to speak out. Moderate Muslims likely do not trust western society to back them up if they get into trouble with extremists. The Danish cartoon affair, the killings in the Netherlands, and the weak western response confirm this. Meanwhile, they have to live in the same communities as the extremists. A strong western stance, especially in europe, might embolden moderate Muslims to speak out
— Herbert Kaine Jan 17, 22:08 #
Douglas:
While trying to accees the video, I got the following message: “This video has been removed at the request of copyright owner Hardcash Productions Ltd. because its content was used without permission”
— Philip Henika Jan 17, 22:39 #
Can Infidels Be Innocents? Daniel Pipes’ Weblog.
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/488
As it turns out, we have to be sure to ask.
— MelM Jan 17, 22:42 #
The video appears to have been taken down today. I got the same message from another Jan 17 blog post. I’m asking at a UK blog for help in locating a legal link but I don’t have much hope.
— MelM Jan 17, 23:16 #
Another link related to the now unavailable video is:
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=94224
This link was listed at The Counterterrorism Blog.
— Philip Henika Jan 17, 23:18 #
Here’s the Ch 4 written introduction to the “Undercover Mosque”.
http://www.channel4.com/news/dispatches/article.jsp?id=1066
—————————————————————————
The Jan 20 debate between London mayor Ken Livingstone and Daniel Pipes ought to be quite interesting in light of the Ch 4 broadcast.
“Gavin Esler, BBC Newsnight presenter, will chair the main debate between Ken Livingstone, Mayor of London, and Daniel Pipes, Director of the Middle East Forum, an American think tank that advises US policymakers on the Middle East, on these contrasting approaches and their implications for Londoners. Pipes argues that ‘there is not so much a clash of civilisations as there is one of civilisations vs. barbarism.’”
http://www.london.gov.uk/mayor/equalities/clash-conf.jsp
— MelM Jan 18, 01:34 #
The video is back on in six parts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peFQWuk4nuo
— Philip Henika Jan 18, 13:11 #
I got the video from a Fox news story posted at The Counterterrorism Blog:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,244263,00.html
— Philip Henika Jan 18, 13:12 #
Dear Mr. Steele,
I agree with you 100% concerning the type of education that is practiced here. But, dogma is dogma, regardless of the type. Better to teach the way we do than to even remotely cross the Church-State barrier.
Concerning the veil, as a woman I’m struggling with this issue. I am not a member of any religous group, but defending women’s freedom is not something I take lightly. I appreciate that the veil may be a symbol, but so is the mini-skirt and pierced eyebrows. Let’s tread very thoughfully here.
— vachon Jan 18, 13:28 #
re: homophobia within the Iraqi government…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070118/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_un
— Philip Henika Jan 18, 13:54 #
Philip: The problem with the retractions, indignation, and counter-attacks is that they are simply part of the strategy of how to cope when exposed, which these guys have perfected over the past decades. The indignation that one cannot be responsible for a mosque’s every word is mitigated by the fact that hate speech was practiced repeatedly there and Lord Nazir Ahmed chose to single it out as his favorite place of worship.
No one, in a shadow war of fronts and mirrors, likes to get caught. When you are caught, you counterattack with smearing the messenger. It is a tactic that still works.
— Douglas Farah Jan 18, 14:14 #
Douglas:
I still want to follow Lord Nazir Ahmed’s recent reactions. As I understand the videos his comments re: his favorite place of worship were made in 2003. Is this correct? I think we need to give him the chance to respond and then analyse his response.
I am concerned about the cultivation of Islamophobia because we have been discussing in our Group about how Al Qaeda might morph with loss of leadership and operational capacity.
I interpret the thinking to be: small groups make for more difficulties re; detection of preop planning; decreased recruitment time into membership; less emphasis on ideology and taking advantage of a growing Islamophobia.
— Philip Henika Jan 18, 15:10 #
http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/mail/news/tm_headline=&method=full&objectid=18495204&siteid=50002-name_page.html
Usamah defends his remarks.
IMO, his comments are more the actions of a tactician – a pure ideologue would not apologize for anything e.g. Osama bin Laden
I wonder if he was told to incite Islamophobia or if he is doing this independently
— Philip Henika Jan 18, 18:07 #
Americans understand very well Muslims plan to implement Jihad until we submit to Islam.
This is not “Islamaphobia.” This is realism. Muslims perpetrated 9/11, London’s 7/7 and 7/21, Madrid, Beslan, Bali, atrocities in Thailand, and so many other atrocities it’s too numerous to mention.
Every American knows that the Muslim next to him on the bus, subway, mall could at any moment yell Allahu Akbar and blow himself up in a suicide bombing. Or ala “Sudden Jihad” start shooting up a Jewish Community Center, snipe at DC / VA /MD pedestrians, run over NC college students, or run over Jews in SF. All btw done by Muslims who for “no reason” at all suddenly found themselves in jihad.
This is not Islamaphobia. This is a recitation of facts. It is indeed inevitable that Muslims will one day nuke America.
I deplore Vigilante justice, but consider the SF 1850’s Committees of Vigilance. They came about only when all other options failed and the state failed to rein in the Gangs that tried to take everything from the small business owners. Who being ex-vets rebelled and took the Armory, leaving Sherman cooling his heels unwilling to confront them, and hung every Gang leader (mostly NYC Irish btw) they could find.
Brits on a Brit Airways flight from Majorca decided PC vs. being blown apart at 50K feet was no contest and refused to fly with suspicious Muslim men (heavy clothing in the heat, nervous / hostile behavior). Same with the “flying Imams” who requested seat belt extensions they couldn’t and didn’t use (but could be used as weapons), positioned themselves near every exit, spoke about Saddam and Osama, and otherwise acted suspicously.
People won’t die for PC. Either the state acts or people will.
— Jim Rockford Jan 20, 00:51 #
Since I prefer action to words, I will post the following counteterrorism measures:
”...• Preventing the commission of terrorist acts,
including giving early warnings through exchange of
information;
• Preventing those who finance, plan and facilitate or
commit terror activities from using their respective
territories to stage attacks in another country;
• Prevent the movement of terror suspects or groups
through effective border controls and controls on the
issuance of identity papers and travel documents;
• Promote capacity-building, trainings and the holding
of regional meetings;
• Promote public awareness and participation in
counter-terrorism and enhance interfaith dialogues;
• Enhance cross-border cooperation and intelligence
exchange;
• Enhance existing cooperation towards developing
regional databases;
• Undertake research and development on measures to
combat terrorism;
• Encourage the use of video conferencing or
teleconferencing for court proceedings; and
• Ensure that those involved in terrorism are brought
to justice.
• Strengthening the capability and readiness to deal
with chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear,
cyber-terrorism and any new forms of terrorism…”
These are the recommendations of the ASEAN Conference in the Philippines. Recently, the Philippines really does have terrorist groups on the run and that is a fact.
— Philip Henika Jan 20, 11:05 #
Jim Rockford & Stefcho, don’t be idiots. This is not a war against Islam, this is war against extremism and terrorism. I’m an Algerian, me and my family experienced the worst type of terrorism, more then 200,000 Algerians have been killed due to terrorism (and yes, most of them were muslim), that’s shows the hypocrisy in these muslim terrorists, how can you claim to be muslim when you are killing your fellow muslims? In Islam it is strictly forbidden to kill another muslim, There have incidents here where extremists riot, vandalise, and rob stores while at the same time screaming Allah Akbar, Islam is against hurting other peoples property and robbing (even to non-muslims according to muslim rules). Same is happening with these so called “muslims” in Sudan and Iraq who are killing their fellow muslims, they fund their cause by selling drugs, theft, fronts, and (as Douglas Faraj states in his book) blood diamonds. If you study Islam then you will know that all of that is the antithesis of Islam. When the quran calls for people to fight non-muslims, it’s talking about the invaders (i.e. soldiers) and not the innocent people of the nation of which these people belong to (read the rules of war according to Islam), a lot of the foreign fighters in Iraq claim to be fighting the the US troops, but all I see is more then 400,000 Iraqis dead since the start of this war, and most of them killed by these people. After 9/11, almost every single arab country was attacked by terrorists, post 9/11 more then 80% of people that have been killed by terrorists are muslims (look at Iraq and Sudan for example), it is absolutely sad to see muslims in Britian actually support that. I have friends and family in the UK and there are a lot of muslims who out there who will never support these type of people, but it’s always the hardline Islamic preachers who get most of the attention and are feared upon, they will go as far as issuing fatwas calling for the killing of any person who speak against them (especially other muslims), the British media always seems to bring these type of people on TV and let them share their views, and get the clueless home audience to start getting the wrong idea about Islam to the point where they start fearing all muslims. The thing is, the act of terrorism is a dirty political act and cannot be a religious act, go read Robert Pape’s book “Dying to Win”, if you think that suicide bombings are done only in the name of Islam then you are dead wrong, this book will show what political advantages suicide bombings accomplished through out it’s history.
— Jameel Jan 21, 20:11 #