A Look At the Polls, Some Good News, Some Not
The recently released Pew poll of Muslims living in the United States has come up with some interesting numbers that are both heartening and scary.
One of the finding, not related to the content of the poll, is that the Muslim population is about 2.35 million. This should help push back with the numbers that CAIR and other groups have been using to justify their demands for special treatment.
CAIR and others in its orbit throw around numbers double or triple the Pew findings, with no accounting of the methodology of how their figures are arrived at, and it is good to have a solid response to that part of their ongoing campaign.
The good news, as noted by the Washington Post and others, is that the Muslim community, unlike those of much of Europe, are assimilated and generally feel positively toward the the United States.
Much has been written about the percentage of young Muslims who believe suicide bombing is acceptable at least under some circumstances.
To me, a more alarming number is the 47 percent of those surveyed who viewed themselves as Muslims first, then Americans or other nationalities. This is far from the 81 percent who feel the same way in Britain and the 69 percent who feel that way in Spain. But still, it is almost half of the population.
I am not disturbed that they may not like American policies and would work within the system to change it. I am not disturbed that they are not deeply nationalistic, particularly given that 65 percent were not born in this country.
What does disturb me is that almost half of those surveyed view their first allegiance to a creed that calls clearly for the implementation of sharia law and the dissolution of the secular state, making the government in essence a theocracy.
We have seen what fun that is, from Afghanistan under the Taliban to Iran today, and seems to me to be fundamentally at odds with the concept of a secular state in which all religions are treated equally and with respect.
Perhaps if one were to ask born-again Christians or other fundamentalist groups if they were Christians or whatever the religious belief is, first or Americans, they would answer the same way, I don’t know.
It is also alarming to me that the younger generation, rather than becoming more integrated into their surrounding society, are measurably less tolerant and more radicalized than the older generations. This seems to me intuitively to be a function of what the younger generation is hearing in the mosques and through their religious training.
Clearly it is not what they get at home, where the older people tend to be more integrated and less radicalized. Outside of the home and the mosque, it is hard to imagine where this new generation is getting its orientation.
So the question is, who owns most of the mosques, and has taken them over in the past decade or so, and radically changed the teachings and worship patterns across America? Perhaps…NAIT, ISNA, CAIR and the Saudi religious materials that now dominate?
But the dangers of this conceptualization can be seen in the story of Islamabad’s oldest mosque, now in the hands of radicals.
A small group took over the mosque, changed the teachings to radical wahhabist doctrines embraced by the Taliban, and is now holding a part of the city essentially hostage.
We are fortunate that our system has worked better than most to absorb different groups. But the groups have to want to assimilate, as well. So far, things have gone better than most other places. But the voices for Islamist separatism are gaining some ground, and that should concern us all.
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The Shifting Balance in the al Qaeda/Salafist Structure The Looming Confrontation
Doug: I’ve read the whole 108 page report; the numbers you cite, are more frightening, if you peel them back a bit more!
The MOST radical of the various Muslim groups, in the entire study, are the Native Born African American Muslims!
More radical than the foreign born, and the recent immigrants by far!
When asked who had an “Unfavorable view of Al Qaeda” the stats were:
63% of Foreign Born Muslims had an Unfavorable view..
51% of Native born Muslims overall had an Unfavorable view of Al Qaeda
and
only 36% of African American Muslims had an Unfavorable view of Al Qaeda!
That’s stunning, that almost 30% more of FOREIGN born Muslims, had an Unfavorable view of Al Qaeda, than Native Born African American Muslims!!
Additionally, when it came to “Assimilation”; Native born African American Muslims again, were the most radical, of any group!
Only 31% of African American Muslims said that Muslims should “assimilate”, and 47% said that Muslims should remain distinct! Far lower, and higher, than any other group!
You mention that 47% of the all Muslims, think of themselves as “Muslim” first, “American” second.
You need to break that number down!
Only 26% of Native born African American Muslims said that they think of themselves as “American” first, and 58% said they think of themselves as “Muslim” first!
Those are the WORST numbers by far, of any group, including the Foreign born Muslims!
Think about that, that is a stunning statistic!
Also, Native born African Americans are more likely to support Suicide bombings againt Civilian targets, and to deny the right of Israel to exist.
Though overall, the Majority of ALL American Muslims claimed to be “Sunnis”; I think the extreme radicalism in the Survey, portrayed by our own Native born African American Muslims, can be directly linked to the Nation of Islam and the influence of Louis Farrakhan; which by the way, is NOT a “Sunni” mainstream Islamic group, it is more appropriately called a “ghulat” (i.e. Arabic for “extremist” sect, that teaches racist doctrine, and which is considered by mainstream Sunnis to be so extremist as to be even apostate and outside the boundaries of Islam.
It’s founder, Wallace Fard, adopted the Islamic practices of a little known Racist Pakistani sect, and started teaching them in the US after the turn of the last century, but more on that later!
— Dale in Atlanta May 23, 12:58 #
Some more info, very difficult to come by, on the Nation of Islam (and they don’t like to publicize it, and proclaim that they went “mainstream” Islam in the 60’s; that can be said of some followers, NOT Farrakhan’s!)
It took me months, to research this information over 15 years ago; and when I showed it to “analysts” in the US Govt, they went screaming in the other direction; DIDN’T WANT TO HEAR IT! No internet back then by the way, this was “old-fashion” analysis!
One of the major origins of this group actually dates back to late nineteenth century India (what is now Pakistan!!), where a Punjabi Sunni Muslim named Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, declared himself a “mujaddid”, or “renewer” of the faith (Islam). Like all the other reform movements previously mentioned, Ghulam Ahmad was extremely anti-colonial/west, and in fact he identified western domination as a manifestation of the “dajjal”, or “deceiver/imposter/devil/Anti-Christ.” Ghulam’s sect came to be known as the Ahmadiyyah, after his death, and his followers were vigorous proselytizers, and through their Indian mercantile and merchant seaman followers, established footholds in Eastern and Western African, European, and North American Indian communities, as well as having some “native” converts in those countries as well. One sect of Ghulam’s followers decided after his death that he was in fact a Prophet, and this, as well as some incorporated Hindu and Christian doctrine resulted in other Sunni communities issuing “fatwas” (A: religious decrees) that decreed the Ahmadiyyah’s as being non-Muslims, or heretics. Eventually, some Ahmadiyyahs converted other “dark skin brothers” (American blacks) in America, and borrowing influences from Marcus Garvey’s “Back to Africa” movement, and the “American Moorish” movement of New Jersey, a man named W. D. Fard formulated the beginnings of the American Black Muslim movement in the 1930’s.Fard himself, is of somewhat mysterious origins, and more on him can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallace_Fard_Muhammad
One of Fard’s converts was Elijah Poole, known later Elijah Muhammed, who not only deified Fard, but coalesced Fard’s ideas into the Nation of Islam doctrine.
Ghulam Ahmad’s original doctrine was now transposed by Fard and Elijah Muhammed into the ideal of Black superiority: Fard/Muhammed proposed that the white race had been derived from Blacks at Mecca; that white Christians were in fact Devils (a slight altering of Ghulam’s doctrine); and that material prosperity is what separated one’s being sent to Heaven, or Hell. One outgrowth of Elijah’s obvious racist doctrine was a stimulation of the American black community’s economic growth and entrepreneurship. Fard “disappeared” in 1953 in a struggle over leadership of the movement, and as has been the typical historical precedent, elements of Shi’itism/Sufism began to creep in with the increasing deification of Elijah Muhammed.Malcolm X became a famous convert, and his public diatribes against the “white devil” brought national recognition, and concern. However, when Malcolm X made a pilgrimage to Mecca in 1964, he saw for the first time “true” Sunni Islam, and returned to the United States amid a very public split with the Nation of Islam.
This, along with Malcolm’s increasingly public denunciations of Elijah for corruption, and for allowing his enshrinement, resulted in Malcolm’s assassination in February 1965, some say at the behest of Elijah Muhammad, and some also say by his rival, Louis X (Farakhan).
Malcolm X had not been the first person to split with the Nation of Islam however, as another individual named Hamaas Abdul Khaalis left the Nation in 1958, and with his followers returned to the practice of traditional Hanafi Sunni Islam. Cassius Clay, who converted to the Nation of Islam and became Muhammed Ali (named after a follower of Ghulam Ahmad, and who had translated the Qur’an into English), was the Nation’s most famous convert. Elijah Muhammad died in 1975, and upon his death, his son Wallace Warith Deen Muhammad led even more Nation followers back to the fold of traditional Sunni Islam. The remainder of the Nation fell under the leadership of the now Louis Farakhan, who to this day continues to preach the Ahmadiyyah influenced doctrine of racial hate and bigotry. Ahmadiyyah-influenced Nation followers, along with their Indian parent group, are still considered heretics and outcasts who have moved beyond the bounds of Sunni Islam, by mainstream Sunni Muslims.— Dale in Atlanta May 23, 16:02 #
I am a Christian first, American Second, but you have nothing to fear from me.
My faith teaches me to be give to Ceaser what is Ceaser’s, and God what is God’s. My heritage is much older than America, but my American Citizenship gives me the freedom to practice my faith and even share it with others in a public place.
In America, we have a peaceful forum for people who are uncomfortable how I practice my faith in the open- It is the legal system.
I am also an American Patriot, and have served my country in various ways, at cost to me and my family.
My Country has the right to regulate my behavior as a citizen. If I break the laws, I become a criminal and should be treated as such.
My Country has never asked me to compromise my faith.
In My relationship with Christ he teaches me to be a good citzen that walks in integrity truth, and peace wherever possible.
If I am to share my faith with a Muslim, he must be alive. It is the work of the Holy Spirit that prepares the hearer as I share. It he or she says no, it is not my work to firce them to listen.
If a Muslim kills me, I cannot share my faith, so I will defend myself.
I will even work to free others to be able to make the choices I have made, and kill, only as a last resort those Muslims who try to kill me as I work to free Muslims who have no right to choose.
In this light, I know that if a Muslim believes he is in Jihad and must kill Americans, No law will stop him.
I am a Christian, who is a Citizen of America. Fear of my faith (Not the faith of the Crusaders-who commited ungodly atrocoties, falsly bearing the flag of Christ)
— Shimron Issachar May 23, 18:38 #
Undefined by this poll is the paradigm of ‘global citizenship’ whereby the youth of this generation think of themselves as ‘global citizens’ as well. I know of a few teens headed for International Relations in college. I would paraphrase JFK – ‘ask not what your world can
do for you, ask what you can do for your world’.
— Philip Henika May 24, 14:47 #
A good question Philip, but to what end?
Do they children of this poll think of themselves as “global citizens” and thus ergo, “global Islamists” and thus required to “defend Islam” and embark on “global Jihad”??
The results seem to be be Yes, as opposed for any, selfless purpose!
— Dale in Atlanta May 24, 15:17 #
Yes, I think you are right.
Here is a quote from the Michael Jacobson article I cited earlier re: “A Resurgent Al Qaeda…
‘Based on the 2006 reports, it appears that the terrorist threat has become even more complex and diverse, which presents serious counterterrorism challenges for the United States and its allies. For example, NCTC determined that almost 300 different groups were involved in terrorist attacks in 2006. It reported that, of these, “Sunni terrorist groups” claimed responsibility for more attacks than any other group in 2006. This broad category includes a variety of terrorist organizations including al-Qaeda, its affiliates, and the “grassroots” or “homegrown” terrorist cells. In fact, according to the State Department, the terrorist threat has been transformed to the point that it is now a “form of global insurgency.”
I think it is going to take some effort to direct Muslim youth away from this path of Jihad and toward a future that addresses, basically, saving this planet from becoming uninhabitable.
And, if you interested in this challenge, you may want to read a book called “Collapse” by Jarod Diamond.
— Philip Henika May 24, 16:14 #
Philip: I’ve been reading Jared Diamond for over 20 years, actually!
In the pages of Natural History Magazine, Discover Magazine mainly, and he also did some articles for the Smithsonian magazine!
Third Chimpanzee, and Guns, Steel and Disease (I think, I read it a decade ago); were his best.
I picked up Third Chimpanzee when I was in Okinawa back in the early 90’s.
Anyway, I eagerly anticipated “Collapse”, and got it when it came out; he’s changed his agenda, from one of informing, to one of Polikting, and I basically read half of it, skimmed the rest, and put it down and haven’t touched it in two years.
He’s a genius; heck, he won the MacArthur Genius award years ago, a top-level Anthropologist, as well as Ornithologist, but this book was all about a political agenda, and I couldn’t take it anymore.
His examples of humans “choosing” to fail, in certain, isolated societies, was ludicrous at best.
His example of the Vikings in Greenland for example is backwards; he says they degraded the environment, and failed as a society, when in fact, everyone knows that the climate cooled considerably; the Western settlement became uninhabitable, not because as he says, they destroyed the environment, it became uninhabitable because we started to go into the “mini-Ice Age” at that time!
His other examples of the Pitcarin Group, and Easter Island, are forced examples to the extreme, to prove a political agenda.
The maximum potential for certain of those islands, IF everything was working correctly, was never more than a couple dozen people, at best; and yet he makes it seem, that the societies collapsed, because people “choose” to do it and thus degraded their environment, as opposed to the fact that those locales, were NEVER designed to host a thriving, growing Human population with it’s mass consumption ways, to begin with!
Very disappointed in the book!
— Dale in Atlanta May 24, 19:58 #
Dale from Atlanta:
Boy, once you judge there is no looking back. I never once thought of the book as “politiking”. I mean is it “politiking” if you do not agree with the results and interpretation of scientific investigation.
Jarod Diamond is a demographer and population ecologist not your local Congressman or Pastor. I will tell you up front that I am a scientist as well and the rigor and scrutiny of scientific investigation is next to none. In fact, one of the rigors of scientific investigation is accountability i.e. we have to explain both the hypothesis and the null hypothesis before our papers are published. We have peer and editorial reviews. If you have an ego and it hurts then you will have to get over it before you can do the work. Jarod Diamond has employed all the rigors of scientific investigation so, I believe him when he posits that deforestation and soil acification are critical factors, in some cases, for the “Collapse” of civilizations. Perhaps you have heard as have I that climate changes have been considered a security risk. How is it that you feel compelled (and with justification) to warn us, in detail, about the growing Jihadist threat? Why is right for you to warn and not scientists, like Jarod Diamond, who have done sound scientific investigation?
— Philip Henika May 24, 21:57 #
Philip: well, first of all, his name is “Jared”, not “Jarod”; and as I’ve mentioned, I’ve been reading him, and been a fan, since at least 1985, when I got my first subscription to Natural History Magazine (was a fan also, from the same magazine, of the late Stephen J. Gould).
I was pushing Jared’s work on to friends and family, for the past 17 years, and turned a lot of fellow Marine Officers on to him and his work!
I said many laudatory things about him, all deserved, of course.
He is, literally, in my opinion, a Genius!
Now, I’ve seen Jared refer to himself as MANY things: evolutionary biologist, physiologist, biogeographer and nonfiction author; ornithologist as well, and a professor of physiology, and in in the ecology and evolution, and in environmental history, a professor of geography and of environmental health sciences; as well as an expert in anthropology, biology, ecology, linguistics, genetics, and history!
But I have NEVER seen him, nor anyone else refer to him as a “Demographer” nor a “population ecologist”?
Alright, that’s a minor point.
As for the climate change as a “security risk”; I can’t even begin to discuss that with you; it’s right up there with the Carter Center nonsense; an absolute Political Nonsensical ploy, by Leftists in charge of the US Congress these days, and it’s so ludicrous, as to be hysteria! It’d be funny, if it were not so pathetically done, to appeal to the Lunar Chiroptera base of the Democratic Party!
Philip, I may have told you, I’m a “farm boy”; no one has to tell me that “deforestation and soil acidification are serious; I not only grew up on a farm, my father was/is a retired Horticulturist who spent his whole career, over in Africa and the Middle East, helping people with those issues, among others.
I’ve seen it in Nigeria, Liberia, Egypt, Sudan, etc., etc.
I KNOW they are critical factors, no one has to tell me.
Additionally, I never said ANYWHERE, anyhow, that Jared Diamond could NOT “warn” anyone, about anything!
Never said it, you drew that inference.
What I did however, was give you My opinion, that his latest book, “Collapse”, unlike his previous books that I had read, and I DEVOURED everything of his I could get my hands on, over a 22 year period, I believe this last book, was not as carefully researched nor thought out, and that he was for the first time, more interested in pushing a “Political agenda”, with exteme examples, than he was in actually educating us!
That’s my opinion; you’re free to disagree, or agree, as you like.
This is coming from someone who has read almost EVERY WORD he has ever written, so I do not make the statement from a position of ignorance!
I’m sure, actually, that as “the” scientist on this board, you’ve felt somewhat a bit “superior” to dumb, former Marine Farmboys like myself, and when you recommended Diamond to me, in the last post, you were probably thinking I’ll educate the little ignoramous, about something he doesn’t have a clue about!
However, if you haven’t figured it out by now, I am far from being an “average” person, I’m 49 years old, and I had an unusual upbringing, I used to read Encyclopedias for fun, when I was 8 years old!
I grew up overseas, and was mostly home-schooled, when other kids were watching TV, I was reading the Information Please Almanac, Guiness Book of World Records, or the Encylcopedias.
My average reading consumption, for over 30 years, was 1 – 2 novels per week, 3 – 4 weekly or monthly scientific journals or magazines, the daily newspaper, and about 20 comic books per week!
That was for starters!
Since the advent of the internet, I supplement that with about 30 different websites per day; dealing with anything from Science, Natural History, History, Anthropology, Space, Archaeology, etc., etc.!
And that doesn’t even include the stuff I do with Islam, which is a “hobby” I’ve had for almost 30 years!!!
Plus, I keep my day job!
Anyway, none of that is relevant; the point is, that’s my opinion of this book of his; and I watched the TV special he did on it about 2 years ago too; probably on the Discovery Channel or something, and it did nothing to change my opinion of the book.
That said, Diamond is STILL a genius, and I’ll still read whatever he writes!
— Dale in Atlanta May 25, 00:54 #
O.k. – you are more well read than I am, I will grant you that but what I don’t understand are your black or white conclusions on issues such as climate change as a security risk.
Let me give you a couple of examples.
Immediately, after the tsunami in Indonesia, I contacted Rohan Gunaratna. I asked him two security risk questions which I do not think are far-fetched: (1) rescuers coming to the scene may encounter hazardous (chemical and bio) waste from a damaged ‘Al Qaeda lab’ and (2) monitoring of the Tamil Tiger website was crucial for a strategic response. As it was, the Tamil Tigers had the audacity to demand aid!
Yesterday, I was reading a National Geographic article on the mechanism of glacier ice melts and how these have accelerted at rates faster than expected. Scientists still cannot predict the impact of the accerated melt in terms of sea level rise –
predictions range from 1-10 feet by 2100. The article mentioned a 20 foot rise 130,000 years ago. The article also mentioned that impact areas would be Florida, Netherlands and Bangladesh.
The bottom line is that the environmental consequences of war combined with mother Nature can no longer be ignored. And they aren’t e.g. – the “Green” movement.
We can leave Earth for Space for one of two reasons: either we rendered the planet uninhabitable or “Green” succeeded and we left to explore the solar system.
— Philip Henika May 25, 13:18 #
I was thinking about the first post here, and upon pondering it came to the realization that indeed it’s quite logical that the “native born” would be the most radical. Those who emigrated to the US knew where they were going and I would imagine what to expect. In all likelihood they were on average more “liberal” than the nation they came from, which most likely played into their decision to move here. There are also large Muslim populations within the US who moved here explicitly as a result of political issues in their home countries, the Iranian population of LA being one of them. As an aside, if you want to see how “liberal” this group can be, go to a sports bar in their neighborhood when the World Cup is on.
This would also help to explain why there has been better integration here then in Europe where there are greater concentrations of “conservative” Muslims who moved there instead of here for the simple reason of proximity. The small percentage in the US would over time dilute the “traditional” influence even more.
— Jon May 25, 13:27 #
Jon.
The threat of a global insurgency renders for me an appreciation for daily life and for what we put American youth through in order to create and maintain a daily life. I have always thought it is a diffult process growing up young in America because we emphasize choice and will power i.e. we guide but we are inclined extend the fence so to speak rather than dictate what our youth should do with their lives rather than live, for examples, under “Sharia Law”. Americans can relate to an Iraqi soccer team or an Iraqi election as indicators that Iraqis can exercise both freedom of religion and secular pragmatism, if you will. I wonder if the discussion of daily life in form of acts of kindness, for example, renders the questions asked in the poll esoteric.
— Philip Henika May 25, 14:32 #
Jon: I think you’re remarks are very cogent, and you’re on to something there, that is definitely part of the factor, and one that I had not considered before.
But I would also add, as the Native born Muslims, who are more “radical” than the foreign born, I would point out, that according to the Poll, that a greater portion of this “radical” Native born Muslims are in fact African Americans.
That is also, part of the problem.
I think that the African Americans, who convert to Islam, or are born into African American families, are going to be more “radical” by the very fact that they’ve been radicalized by the likes of Louis Farrakhan, and Elijah Poole, and even W. D. Fard, for almost 70 years, by an extremist, blatantly racist/Anti-White form of “Islam”, that they’ve adopted!
When someone decides to adopt that philosphy, you are buying into all it’s tenents, which are also heavily influenced by the “back-to-Africa” and “Afrocentrism” of people such as Marcus Garvey, Chancellor Williams, Ivan van Sirtima, Cornell West, etc.!
These people are exclusionary of America, and “whites”, by their very ideologies and theologies, if you do a little research.
And by the way, it is not related to the African American Muslim population alone, take a look at the Trinity Church in Chicago website, and read what they’re Pastor says!
This by the way, is the Church and Christian sect that Senator Barack Hussein Obama belongs to!
A Muslim born and raised, I might add, who in all liklihood, is practicing “Taqiya” in passing himself off as a convert from Islam to Christianity, in order to fool us!
Which brings up an interesting question: IF he is elected President of the United States, will he be able to travel to Muslim Countries without being threatened for death as an “apostate”?
He was after all, born to a Muslim father, and raised during his younger years as a Muslim, and even attended as Islamic school in Indonesia!
Thus, in the eys of Muslims worldwide, he WAS, and SHOULD be, a “Muslim”.
Since he’s now claiming to be a Christian, and belongs to a Christian church, he is, without a doubt, a “Convert” to Christianity, from Islam, in the eyes of Muslims worldwide!
Such a thing, is ILLEGAL, under penalty of DEATH, in every Muslim world in the country!
An interesting dilemma, isn’t it?
Philip: I was not, in ANY way, attempting to prove I was better read than you; you are a scientist, I am not, I seriously doubt it by the way.
My thrust was, I’m not the ignoramous, people think I am, just because I’m a former Marine; and I may have surprised you a bit, because I not only had read Jared Diamond, but knew quite a bit about him. That was my Only intent, nothing more; it was NOT “one-upmanship”.
As regards your question vis a vis climate change as a security risk; I see it so, in the LONG TERM, yes, for a host of reasons I don’t really want to take the time now, to discuss.
My point on this was, though; that the declaring of such, recently, by the US Congress, and forcing the IC to start to look at it, etc., was PURELY Political Partisan Theater, and a chance for the Moonbats to additionally attack, and embarras the President, and to make the imbecile Al Gore, look good for a possible Presidential run; that’s all it was, nothing more, nothing less; pure Political theater; and for that reason alone, I have to condem it, and reject it!
— Dale in Atlanta May 25, 15:10 #
Dale from Atlanta:
First, I think climate change as a security risk is both short and long term as indicated by the questions I asked Rohan. What I would like is your opinion on whether the questions were far fetched or not.
Second, the presentation of Al Gore re: Inconvienent Truth fell short for me because of the lack of global perspective. Yes, I don’t think Bush is doing enough re: ‘global peacebuilding intiative’ but Inconvienent Truth, although scientifically sound, was still too much about Al Gore and not enough about the global solution to the problem. I wanted to know less about Bush Administration shortcomings and more about accountability of what other countries are doing re: the consequences of global warming.
Third, Marines are bright, resourceful, disciplined and COORDINATED and I have utmost respect for what they go through to become the kind of people they are.
On another point, I think radicalization has flourished with globalization and it is not restricted to African American Muslims. There are more agendas and deceivers in this world than ever before. I would guess that you may be inclined to dismiss End Times prophecy (you did mention the Dajjaal above) but prophecy empowers fanatics i.e. it does matter what we believe as Americans, it matters what they believe and what they intend to about it e.g. 9/11.
Finally, another indicator of normalcy in the Muslim world not addressed by interpretations of the poll above is the fact that very few, if any, suicide bombers originate from countries with high Muslim populations like Indonesia and England. Maybe there is some parenting going on in these countries that has been left unrecognized.
So, the question I have been thinking about asking Douglas and this blog – is there a line for vigilance and fear mongering and what would be the criteria for the drawing of this line?
— Philip Henika May 25, 15:56 #
Shimron.
I picked Pakistan because of what Dale mentioned re: the prophecy of the Dajjaal. As I understand it, the Dajjaal, in Islamic prophecy, emerges from “Khurassan” which is a region defined by Afghanistan and Pakistan. A peacebuilding initiative amongst moderate Muslims there may serve as an antitheisis to such empowerment.
— Philip Henika May 25, 16:07 #
Philip: IF you can find some “moderate” Muslims in Pakistan, to begin your peace initiatives with, without getting your head removed in the process, I’d encourage you to try!
The Inconvenient Truth Movie, by Al Gore, is many thngs, one thing it is NOT is “scientifically sound”!!
Philip, make no doubt, I, personally, believe Global Warming IS happening; however, the reasons why, are the details for the Devil to work out!
And instead of approaching this in a sane, rational, scientific manner, which you should appreciate as a Scientist, it has been used, as an “issue”, by Leftists, to attack the President, and the Administration, on everything from the war in Iraq, to GWOT, etc.
And thus, that is just plain WRONG!
As a scientist, you should also be aware, that other scientists, have not only noticed “Global Warming” ocurring on our Planet, but the Moom, Mars, Uranus, Pluto, and even some of the moons, such as Titan and Triton!
Are WE, or BUSH, responsible for that, as well?
Is driving my SUV, causing the Southern Ice cap on Mars to melt?
As a scientist, you have to know about the natural phenomenon of the Milankovitch cycles, which most DEFINITELY affect our climate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles
Additionally, last year, a Hyper-nova explosion was recorded last year, of a “sun” 1500 times more massive than our own; up to now, Scientists had not realized “suns” that massive, could Nova! They thought they collapsed into Black Holes!
Fortunately for US, it was in a Galaxy, Thousands of Light years away! IF, it had ocurred, ANYWHERE inside,the Milky Way Galaxy, it would’ve STERILIZED the Earth, completely!
Think about that!
Not only don’t we have a clue when something like will happen, when or where, but we could be wiped out in a second, and we have no idea what the long term cumulative effect of such phenomena are upon us, or our climate!
That said, I will say several things, you might actually agree with!
a) Human population: too many, has to be brought under control, somehow, SOON
The planet is not big enough, and does not have enough resources, to endlessly supply the Human Species; we are destructive, and massively consumptive, it has to stop!
b) Deforestation: TERRIBLE; the single biggest problem, as far as I’m concerned, a crime against humanity; MUST be stopped; I personally believe, Deforestation, affects the climate way more, with the resultant loss of cover, water retention capability of the soil once deforested, the resultant erosion, etc., is a FAR bigger threat than driving our SUV’s around.
c) the Oceans/Seas: we are, quite literally, Raping them! HAS to stop; they cannot Endlessly supply our addiction to Shrimp, Tuna, Swordfish, etc., we destroy the ecological foodchain in the Ocean, and we’re all finished. They just cannot stand the endless overfishing, etc.
d) Wetlands/Marshes, bogs, etc., lost to Development. A CRIME! We, as Humans, can build/live ANYWHERE, we can ADAPT; a spotted owl however, cannot pack up, and move to the North Pole and survive! It’s terrible, the loss of wetlands, marshes, coastal dunes, etc. Katrina happened, in large part, due to 200 years of mismanagement of New Orleans’ coastal protection/buffer zone!
e)Urban Zones = Heat Sinks: you cannot chop down all the forests/jungles, build an urban area of 12 million people that is hundreds of square miles in size, with the resultant loss of cloud cover and rain, as a result of an increase in the reflectivity factor, and cause the earth and surrounding area to become nothing but a HUGE “Heat sink”; due to all the glass, metal, asphault, concrete, etc., which ABSORB heat, and NOT have the Earth as a whole, HEAT UP!
It’s ludicrous!
IF we REALLY wanted to do something about this; we would immediately luanch Nationwide Recycling programs, akin to WWII; we would require EVERY new house, building, school, etc. built, to include “green space”; i.e, even going so far as to require Gardens on the tops; plant/flower boxes on every window sill; find replacements for asphault that do not absorb heat, and not use Oil; require every town, village, City, to demolish certain sectors, and plant forest cover, etc.!
Draconian, I know, thus never stands a chance in hell of becoming reality; but it is necessary!
Hurricans, by the way, the increase supposedly over the past years; probably nonsense; it’s part of a natural cycle, we do not fully understand; and recent research indicates that there is a direct link, between the number and intensity of hurricanes forming over the Atlantic, and how much dust/sand get blown out of North Africa/the Sahara due to the “Khameseen” winds that year!
“On another point, I think radicalization has flourished with globalization and it is not restricted to African American Muslims.”
I never said that, and you are correct by the way, it has flourished worldwide. I was only referring to the statistics in THIS poll, that pointed in that particular direction; the poll had nothing to do with Muslims “worldwide”.
“but prophecy empowers fanatics i.e. it does matter what we believe as Americans, it matters what they believe and what they intend to about it e.g. 9/11.”
Again you are correct, but I’ve been saying the same thing, literally every time I post on the subject!
“Finally, another indicator of normalcy in the Muslim world not addressed by interpretations of the poll above is the fact that very few, if any, suicide bombers originate from countries with high Muslim populations like Indonesia and England. Maybe there is some parenting going on in these countries that has been left unrecognized.”
Here, you are dead wrong, I’m afraid.
The Jihadis in Indonesia, are, in some ways, more extreme than elsewhere; and you are forgetting the bombings in Bali, etc.
There is a Jihadi campaign that has been ongoing every day, for years, in Indonesia and Thailand, to kill Christians, Budhists, and Tourists, that gets no media play, because it cannot be used to attack the President and his Administration, to the advantage of the Leftists!
England has not only had the two suicide attacks that were successful, but the Britist CT authorities have been even MORE aggressive than our own, and they have stopped countless other plots as well; this is not a good example to use, as you did.
It isn’t “good parenting” that has prevented this in England, it is luck; and there are unknown numbers of UK “Jihadis” training right now, in Pakistan and Afghanistan and even Iraq, to attack England as soon as they can; and Indonesian Jihadis are working in Thailand and the Philippines right now, to kill non-Muslims on a daily basis!
— Dale in Atlanta May 25, 17:58 #
Dale from Atlanta:
I agree with you on most if not all counts but I do think that global leadership has fallen short on both sides of the political fences – Republican and Democrat.
Douglas refers to “keeping up”. I say that we are behind the eight-ball on every global issue that I have mentioned – climate change, global spread of disease, global spread of extremism and organized crime, Internet propagandizing and conservation of energy.
Globaliztion, in its opportunistic fashion, proceeds unabated while Congress bickers over policy and budgets – the diviseness gives time to the terrorists and organized time.
I try to advance common people hypotheses such as good parenting in
Muslim countries with low suicide rates because I want the common people given credit for when credit is due.
You know?
Every time a Muslim kid plays a note of music it is a chime against the Taliban ban on music.
See what I mean?
— Philip Henika May 26, 09:53 #
Dale from Atlanta:
I also wanted to add that computer modeling and multivariate statistics has improved the scientific assessment of such hypotheses as global warming. Still, even with these improvements the scientific commumity cannot predict the exact timing of large events such as earthquakes or El Nino.
Like I said, I think you get a more accurate assessment from the scientific community than you do from the political community.
If a study is published in the medical journal Lancet that says that over 600,000 Iraqis have been killed in a certain time period and Bush says 50,000 then I tend to believe the medical community’s assessment.
I set up my private email group because I anticipated a failure on the part of Congress and the White House re: assessments of what is really happening in Iraq.
I have gone so far as to suggest not only a complex civil war with over 20 distinct insurgencies but genocide
based on the multiple motivations for killing people.
Terrorist groups and organized crime feed on Congress and the White House’s inability to come to a consensus and to set precedent on what global leadership means to the common person.
We all know what globalization has done for the opportinists.
— Philip Henika May 26, 10:23 #